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It's the UFO case that dominates all others, but it may only be half the story.

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Roswell has always been an amazing mystery.

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In July, 1947, something crashes outside of Roswell, New Mexico.

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And days before, strange objects are sighted near the local Army airfield.

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They were off the corner of that hangar there.

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Now, the Roswell mystery takes an incredible turn.

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For the first time ever, physical evidence suggests that there wasn't one crash, but two.

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At first I wasn't sure what to do with the UFO crash, but I started finding things.

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Strange artifacts from the supposed location of the second crash.

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Have you ever seen anything like this before?

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I've seen nothing of this shape and form.

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After 61 years, a new witness steps forward.

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Makes chills running down my back.

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The real story behind Roswell waits to be unearthed.

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And if I wanted to get rid of my UFO debris, this would be a nice place to put it.

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This is case number 47402, the real Roswell.

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Early July, 1947, Roswell, New Mexico is a quiet city of just 26,000 people.

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The majority of the population are ranchers or military based at the nearby Roswell Army

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airfield.

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Little do any of them know, this sleepy town is about to receive a wake-up call.

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On July 6, local rancher Mac Brazel reports to the local sheriff that he has found strange

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debris on the ranch where he works.

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Major Jesse Marcell from Roswell Army Airfield is sent out to investigate.

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He takes as much of the debris as he can fit in his truck back to the base.

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On July 8, the Army issues a statement that they are in possession of a flying saucer.

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But after the debris is flown to Dallas, Texas that afternoon for further analysis, the Army

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states the debris is nothing but a misidentified weather balloon.

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The story quickly fades from memory.

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But in 1978, Stanton Friedman, a retired nuclear physicist, interviews Jesse Marcell, who

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has a somewhat different take on the story.

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Marcell reveals to Friedman that what was said that afternoon in Dallas on July 8, 1947

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was actually a cover story.

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What he handled was definitely not a weather balloon.

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The Roswell mystery explodes.

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In the 15 years following Friedman's explosive interview with Jesse Marcell, cries of cover-up

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and conspiracy cloud the Roswell incident.

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Finally, in 1994, the government decides to tell all.

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The Air Force issues an official report saying that the debris recovered at Roswell was from

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a top secret program called Project Mogul.

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These classified exercises were used to spy on Soviet missile and bomb tests.

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For many, the long-standing debate over what happened in 1947 in Roswell, New Mexico is

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put to rest.

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But some are not convinced.

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Now, there is another chapter to the Roswell story.

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In recent years, more and more UFO researchers are paying closer attention to a second reported

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crash that happened the same week as Roswell, 250 miles away on the plains of San Augustine.

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61 years after these events, time is running out.

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Researchers rush to collect testimony and physical evidence before it disappears forever.

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Dr. Ted Acworth will investigate the alleged second crash site in the plains of San Augustine.

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This is the famous case, is Roswell.

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It's probably the dominant UFO case of all history.

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Bill Burns will meet with a researcher who's found a new witness from the original crash

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site, one who may have seen and handled the actual debris.

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Roswell has always been for me an amazing mystery that ever since I was a kid, I've

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wanted to solve.

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And Pat Usker will search for physical evidence that is rumored to be hidden on remote ranches

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outside of town.

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This is the ultimate UFO event to attend, Bill.

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You know, I can't believe we're here.

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I'm really excited about this.

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This is when you want to study about UFOs in the United States.

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You come to Roswell and this is where you begin.

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We're here.

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Bill begins by meeting Roswell researcher Dennis Ball-Taser, a local contact who details

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the new direction the investigation has taken.

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There's an urgency about this.

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What is the urgency?

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We're running out of time.

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We're talking about people that are in their 80s if they're still alive that we're here

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and the fact that we have nothing physical really for the Roswell incident.

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If there is metal out there and I'm sure there is because of the number of guys that

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were at the crash site to help clean it up, it could be kept anywhere.

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I think looking at the planes of San Augustine and Roswell as a combination or even separately,

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I think that needs to be worked some more.

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The idea of a second crash site in the Roswell incident is a theory starting to gain traction.

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This possible second site, located in the planes of San Augustine, is approximately

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250 miles from the main Roswell crash site.

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And this site could provide much needed evidence to back up the Roswell incident.

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One of the biggest proponents of this theory is Stanton Friedman, the original investigator

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who broke the Roswell case wide open 30 years ago.

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I had heard the first story about Roswell and I had heard the first story about the planes

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of San Augustine.

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And I followed up on both of course and found sufficient other evidence to believe that

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there weren't at least two sites.

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Where does it lead us with respect to multiple crash sites?

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I think you're needed to see the site, see how barren it is, the strange area it is,

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and notice that any pilot would come down in the middle of the planes instead of hit

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one of those mountains around there.

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Makes sense, that's what pilots do.

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The story of this other crash happens in early July 1947 as well, though the exact date is

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still hotly debated.

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A man named Barney Barnett allegedly discovers a downed craft, including dead alien bodies,

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early one July morning.

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He claims the military arrives at the site soon after he does and orders him to keep

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quiet about what he's seen.

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Remember, Barney was a World War I veteran.

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He worked for the Soil Conservation Service.

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It would be ridiculous to expect him to just go talking.

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So what we have is a story that Barney Barnett was on the planes of San Augustine.

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Found wreckage, there were people there, including archaeologists and including students, and

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the military came along and told everybody to shut up and they meant it very strongly.

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Remember, this is 47.

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And you shut up when you were told to shut up.

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That's right.

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But why would there be two UFO crashes so close together during the same week?

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Is it possible they are linked in some way?

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The theories behind these alleged crashes need further analysis before the investigation

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visits either site.

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Do we know anything about the relative positions of these debris fields?

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Are they scattered randomly across what kind of area or are they in line?

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Well, most of the debris fields are around Rosswell.

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They are around the main crash site.

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However, there is another one 200 miles away on the planes of San Augustine.

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It seems pretty unlikely that the second crash site is 200 miles away, that it could be some

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sort of primary vehicle that hit and then bounced.

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I'm not familiar with any vehicles being able to bounce or debris bouncing like that.

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Another theory is that there were two crafts that maybe somehow collided in midair and

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created a sort of a cue ball effect where one craft exploded, rained debris down over

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the Rosswell area.

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The second craft was exactly sort of cue balled over to the planes of San Augustine.

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So we have basically two crafts and two crashes.

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Linking the two crashes at Rosswell and San Augustine will be a key focus of the investigation.

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Tom Carey, a researcher of the original crash, has uncovered a stunning new witness who claims

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he was at this site, a staff sergeant at Rosswell Army Airfield in 1947.

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His name is Earl Fulford.

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I called Earl Fulford three years ago.

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He was just a face in the base yearbook.

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I called his number and his wife answered.

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And much to my surprise, he said, I'm glad you called.

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He's ready to talk.

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Carey identified Earl through the official base yearbook from 1947.

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This is the first time he has ever spoken about the events he witnessed.

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What happened to get you involved with this Rosswell incident after you were on the base?

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Well, it happened.

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We worked over here in the next hangar and about two or three weeks before the incident,

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the people in town especially and some airmen here on the base started seeing objects in

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the sky.

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Where were the objects?

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They were off the corner of that hangar there.

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Earl describes the objects as unlike any aircraft he had ever seen.

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We looked up and there was three up there.

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They were circular and hung motionless.

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And we probably watched them for a couple minutes and they suddenly disappeared.

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This was before anything ever happened on the base?

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That's right.

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It was within days, maybe a week when the crash occurred.

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This description doesn't match the appearance of the government's Project Mogul balloons,

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which had extremely long trains of various materials and were used primarily at high

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altitudes.

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Military servicemen would be unlikely to see them so low in the atmosphere, but spotting

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the strange orbs is only the beginning of Earl's story.

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The next day, Sergeant Rosenberg came in the mess hall at 5 a.m. and got 12 or 15 or maybe

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20 of us and loaded us up on an army bus and took us to the debris field about 70 miles

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north of Roswell.

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And what did you do there?

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Picked up some debris of a very unusual shape and feel and appearance.

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What was the debris that Earl Fulford and other volunteers picked up in 1947?

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The answer may still lie hidden beneath the desert.

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Show no fear.

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In Roswell, New Mexico, a new witness to the Roswell incident has come forward for the

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first time.

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Earl Fulford, a staff sergeant at Roswell Army Airfield in 1947, finds himself recruited

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for cleanup duty.

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But this is no ordinary cleanup.

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Pat and Bill are bringing Earl and researcher Tom Kerry to the original Roswell crash site

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to get first-hand details about the debris recovered there on July 8, 1947.

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While they head to the first site, Ted is prepping the investigation's next step, a

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visit to a possible second crash site on the plains of San Augustine, 250 miles away.

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Earl, if I want to go to the crash site, which way do I want to turn now?

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You take a left right down that road.

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Is an high area like that over there?

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Okay.

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What does it feel like going back?

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Feeling like to be able to do something like this at 82 years old.

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Show no fear.

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After nearly three hours of driving, including an hour off-road, the team arrives at their

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destination.

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This is the famous Roswell crash site.

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On this barren landscape, many claim history was made.

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Right here, for the first and so far only time, the United States military admitted to finding

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a UFO, only to change its story days later.

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So Earl, do you remember this site?

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Yes.

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We picked up material here in about a one square mile area.

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So you were here pretty much the whole day?

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Yeah, the bigger part of the day.

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Earl describes the field as a fan, spreading out over one square mile.

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And according to him, the debris was everywhere.

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The vehicles all drove up and formed a circle.

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We started walking in one direction.

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We went about 10, 12, 15 apart, where I could see what you could see.

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And you could see what I could see.

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So we wouldn't miss anything.

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Well, I've seen some type of material or metal or something that looked sort of like aluminum

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of its threads and pieces.

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Now when you picked it up and tried to put it in your sack, what happened?

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Well, my personal experience was great surprise.

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When I picked up a piece and I watered it up to put my bag in before we get it there,

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it came back to its original shape.

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Wow.

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And I took it out and I watered it up again on the same thing.

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Other witnesses have explained what happened when people brought debris back from this

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very site.

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But Earl was there at the beginning.

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He saw the material on the ground.

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He explained the shock when he picked up a piece of what looked like foil, tarnished

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chrome foil, crushed it in his hand.

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Went to put it in the sack and it popped open again.

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About how many pieces do you think that you gathered in your own gunny sack?

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I would say I picked up 10, 12, maybe 15 pieces.

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But once it went in those bags, we never seen it again.

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Do you remember what army personnel took possession of the bags?

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They were military police.

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It is the last time Earl will see or hear of the debris.

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They told me up there if I showed anyone or told anyone, I was in deep trouble.

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We've gotten a new perspective on Lyswell today because Earl Fulford was able to explain

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to us what it was like being here.

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Now we can go to the next step.

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I don't know if we'll have any luck finding any more witnesses.

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And I don't think we can find a witness better than Earl Fulford.

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So the thing I would want to do now is see if there's any way we can come up with even

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a smallest bit of debris.

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With this first hand information from Earl, Ted looks at creating an experiment with conventional

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materials to see if anything that was unconventional at the time might explain what these materials

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crews were picking up.

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The fact that the military got to this site quickly and removed the alleged debris has

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frustrated UFO researchers for years.

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But what if they were not the first to arrive?

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There are rumors that local ranchers like Mac Brazel got to the crash site before the

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military.

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And according to Tom's research, they may have actually collected some of the wreckage

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and hidden it in nearby caves.

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What we're trying to do is see if there's any truth to these stories, maybe in the caves.

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Pat heads out to meet Sue Manis, a local rancher whose family has been here since the Roswell

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incident.

236
00:17:57,515 --> 00:17:59,875
So there are other people who come out here looking for the debris.

237
00:17:59,875 --> 00:18:00,876
Oh yes.

238
00:18:00,876 --> 00:18:04,957
Well, we'd like to take a stab at investigating this ourselves.

239
00:18:04,957 --> 00:18:08,199
And we're hoping maybe you could help us find some of these caves.

240
00:18:08,199 --> 00:18:12,040
Well, I will try to help you find some of the caves.

241
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,961
Some are easy to find, some are caved in.

242
00:18:13,961 --> 00:18:17,242
Do you think there's a chance that maybe some of this debris is in the caves?

243
00:18:17,242 --> 00:18:24,725
Where there's rumor, there is a potential for the truth.

244
00:18:24,725 --> 00:18:29,407
According to Sue's family, her uncle was one of the first at the crash site.

245
00:18:29,407 --> 00:18:34,569
She points Pat in the direction of a nearby cave, one that her uncle supposedly visited

246
00:18:34,569 --> 00:18:37,050
often.

247
00:18:37,050 --> 00:18:41,732
One theory is that he may have been able to take some of the debris with him and hid

248
00:18:41,732 --> 00:18:45,933
it there for safekeeping.

249
00:18:45,933 --> 00:18:51,616
Pat heads out to search, and after several attempts finds a promising site.

250
00:18:51,616 --> 00:18:58,858
And if I wanted to get rid of my UFO debris, this would be a nice place to put it.

251
00:18:58,858 --> 00:19:01,299
Pat's descent must be cautious.

252
00:19:01,299 --> 00:19:09,182
The only thing to secure his line to is a small piece of desert brush.

253
00:19:09,182 --> 00:19:14,264
There is no established route down into the cave.

254
00:19:14,264 --> 00:19:16,065
Got it.

255
00:19:16,065 --> 00:19:18,266
And there's no way to know what might be inside.

256
00:19:18,266 --> 00:19:19,266
Damn it.

257
00:19:19,266 --> 00:19:37,153
Okay, well, we're going to have a look and see what's in here.

258
00:19:37,153 --> 00:19:42,075
Well, I've just discovered that the rumors are true.

259
00:19:42,075 --> 00:19:46,757
There are underground caves here near the Mac Browsel debris field, and these would

260
00:19:46,757 --> 00:19:52,119
be a great place for people to stow away this debris if they wanted to hide it from military

261
00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,620
personnel.

262
00:19:53,620 --> 00:20:04,404
Whether or not the debris is actually down here, we'll see.

263
00:20:04,404 --> 00:20:09,646
I can tell from this layer of silt here that this is all probably rain drainage.

264
00:20:09,646 --> 00:20:11,366
It probably comes through this tunnel.

265
00:20:11,366 --> 00:20:14,007
We can see it on the outside.

266
00:20:14,007 --> 00:20:16,088
This is as far as the tunnel goes.

267
00:20:16,088 --> 00:20:20,610
All I have is hard walls of quartz and a silty floor.

268
00:20:20,610 --> 00:20:28,653
That's all I found down in this cave.

269
00:20:28,653 --> 00:20:33,935
Many don't realize that these caves below the desert even exist, and Pat's discovery

270
00:20:33,935 --> 00:20:38,617
of a cave near Sue's Ranch puts the rumors into perspective.

271
00:20:38,617 --> 00:20:45,660
Not only do they make ideal hiding places, these caves are everywhere.

272
00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:50,101
These ranges are so vast, it might take months to find all the caves around here that are

273
00:20:50,101 --> 00:20:54,183
around the debris field.

274
00:20:54,183 --> 00:20:59,305
Despite this confirmation, after 60 years, the alleged first crash site still has not

275
00:20:59,305 --> 00:21:02,946
yielded any debris.

276
00:21:02,946 --> 00:21:07,828
But the first physical evidence that could point to a UFO has emerged from the second

277
00:21:07,828 --> 00:21:08,829
crash.

278
00:21:08,829 --> 00:21:14,711
Looks like an organic form.

279
00:21:14,711 --> 00:21:22,554
For years, the Roswell crash has dominated this tiny city and the nearby ranches.

280
00:21:22,554 --> 00:21:29,237
But few have paid attention to another alleged UFO crash story, 250 miles west, in the plains

281
00:21:29,237 --> 00:21:36,639
of San Augustine that reportedly happened the same week of July 1947.

282
00:21:36,639 --> 00:21:41,801
The investigation's next step is to visit this second crash site and determine if it

283
00:21:41,801 --> 00:22:11,613
has any connection to Roswell.

284
00:22:12,413 --> 00:22:17,975
several different artifacts during a dig in 1995.

285
00:22:17,975 --> 00:22:23,378
He cross-references his dig's location with the story of Barney Barnett, who claimed to

286
00:22:23,378 --> 00:22:29,740
have found a UFO crash site in this area in July 1947.

287
00:22:29,740 --> 00:22:35,702
Barney Barnett was a local soil conservation engineer, and he had a district that was 70

288
00:22:35,782 --> 00:22:42,705
miles long, 72 miles wide, and he was assigned to help farmers with conservation projects.

289
00:22:42,705 --> 00:22:47,147
It was one of the main highways he drove on, saw something glinting in the sun.

290
00:22:47,147 --> 00:22:51,589
He told friends and relatives he thought it was a plane crash, and he knew a way in,

291
00:22:51,589 --> 00:22:56,190
so he drove over there as fast as he could get there, and came over a small rise and

292
00:22:56,190 --> 00:23:01,472
looked down on this UFO, went on one side, a couple bodies outside.

293
00:23:01,472 --> 00:23:05,074
What happened to that vehicle and the bodies?

294
00:23:05,074 --> 00:23:09,996
It was there probably a half hour, 45 minutes, and some archaeologists came up.

295
00:23:09,996 --> 00:23:15,438
According to Barnett's account, these archaeologists are returning from a nearby dig when they

296
00:23:15,438 --> 00:23:19,679
stumble upon Barney and the UFO crash site.

297
00:23:19,679 --> 00:23:26,882
In his research, Campbell located corroborating documents for Barnett's claim.

298
00:23:26,882 --> 00:23:31,804
According to this letter from the Peabody Museum at Harvard University, archaeologist

299
00:23:31,804 --> 00:23:36,806
Herbert W. Dick was working at Bat Cave in the Plains of San Augustine in the summer

300
00:23:36,806 --> 00:23:40,607
of 1947.

301
00:23:40,607 --> 00:23:45,409
Bat Cave is in close proximity to the site where art performed his dig.

302
00:23:45,409 --> 00:23:51,092
Then the army drove up in several vehicles and said, oh, this is the site of secure and

303
00:23:51,092 --> 00:23:52,092
chased them off.

304
00:23:52,092 --> 00:23:54,533
Again, this was a completely separate crash site.

305
00:23:54,533 --> 00:23:56,534
He didn't see the crash at Roswell.

306
00:23:56,814 --> 00:24:03,536
What evidence exists that something crashed in the Plains of San Augustine?

307
00:24:03,536 --> 00:24:12,540
The theory is that some crash into this, it would have left a long gouge, wouldn't it

308
00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:13,540
have?

309
00:24:13,540 --> 00:24:16,341
I estimate the gouge to be maybe about 200 feet long.

310
00:24:16,341 --> 00:24:21,183
And then you think mixed up in the soil here would be some components of the vehicle or

311
00:24:21,183 --> 00:24:22,184
wreckage?

312
00:24:22,184 --> 00:24:25,185
I believe that's the case.

313
00:24:25,185 --> 00:24:31,827
Whatever it was, keep it in that stage version, put a swap to it.

314
00:24:31,827 --> 00:24:38,150
The site had numerous artifacts that Campbell collected after persistent and thorough digging.

315
00:24:38,150 --> 00:24:47,273
This is the first time he's been back to the site in almost five years.

316
00:24:47,273 --> 00:24:51,675
He specifically requests that the actual location not be revealed.

317
00:24:51,675 --> 00:24:53,676
Great.

318
00:25:03,199 --> 00:25:05,440
Now I've seen this stuff at Roswell.

319
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,762
Researchers have researched Roswell for years, but this is all new information.

320
00:25:09,762 --> 00:25:13,323
Not too many people know about this site here in San Augustine, so we'll be the first to

321
00:25:13,323 --> 00:25:15,924
really investigate this area with our Campbell.

322
00:25:15,924 --> 00:25:19,646
So you're saying this is where Barney Barnett said the crash was?

323
00:25:19,646 --> 00:25:20,726
Yes, I am.

324
00:25:20,766 --> 00:25:21,927
What about the archaeologists?

325
00:25:21,927 --> 00:25:23,647
Is this also where they saw the object?

326
00:25:23,647 --> 00:25:26,689
The archaeologists came from this direction.

327
00:25:26,689 --> 00:25:30,090
That's where Batcave is.

328
00:25:30,090 --> 00:25:35,732
But the presence of Batcave was just circumstantial, so art turned to an archaeological dig to

329
00:25:35,732 --> 00:25:39,814
find physical proof of a crash.

330
00:25:39,814 --> 00:25:44,015
So in theory the object came and crashed in from what direction?

331
00:25:44,015 --> 00:25:47,777
A flat direction from the northeast.

332
00:25:47,777 --> 00:25:50,018
And right, came and crashed through here.

333
00:25:50,498 --> 00:25:52,499
That's what we figure out.

334
00:25:52,499 --> 00:25:58,621
Before his excavation, Campbell took aerial photographs of the area.

335
00:25:58,621 --> 00:26:03,303
Several former water channels can be seen moving on a southwestern course.

336
00:26:03,303 --> 00:26:07,544
But Campbell noticed a separate gap moving in the opposite direction of these natural

337
00:26:07,544 --> 00:26:11,866
courses and focused his dig here.

338
00:26:11,866 --> 00:26:14,467
How did you determine that this area here was a trench?

339
00:26:14,467 --> 00:26:16,188
Because the soil was different.

340
00:26:16,188 --> 00:26:22,350
I had 21 test holes dug one evening, seven up each side of the sagebrush and one down

341
00:26:22,350 --> 00:26:23,951
the center where we're standing.

342
00:26:23,951 --> 00:26:26,072
The soil in the center of this was different.

343
00:26:26,072 --> 00:26:29,273
And that gave you sort of the hunch that something was going on here.

344
00:26:29,273 --> 00:26:30,273
That's correct.

345
00:26:31,554 --> 00:26:35,115
The way art describes the case is the vehicle came in.

346
00:26:35,115 --> 00:26:39,317
You can see a bit of what seems to be an alley through the sage.

347
00:26:39,317 --> 00:26:40,317
It could be natural.

348
00:26:40,317 --> 00:26:42,678
It could be caused by some effect.

349
00:26:42,678 --> 00:26:47,920
For example, a filled area where the sage doesn't want to grow back into.

350
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:49,841
So it's relatively consistent.

351
00:26:49,841 --> 00:26:50,921
That could be a natural effect.

352
00:26:50,921 --> 00:26:52,682
I can't prove it either way.

353
00:26:55,363 --> 00:27:02,566
But one of the artifacts that Art uncovered in his dig may provide the necessary proof.

354
00:27:02,566 --> 00:27:05,047
Let's have a look at these artifacts here covered.

355
00:27:05,047 --> 00:27:09,889
This was the piece I found under the sagebrush that kicked the whole investigation off.

356
00:27:09,889 --> 00:27:10,889
Right.

357
00:27:10,889 --> 00:27:11,889
Look at that.

358
00:27:11,889 --> 00:27:12,890
What about here digging?

359
00:27:12,890 --> 00:27:19,372
Well, it certainly looks like something in sort of an organic form or melted.

360
00:27:19,372 --> 00:27:24,574
Campbell uncovers the artifact in the same gap that he believes indicates a UFO crashed

361
00:27:24,574 --> 00:27:25,575
here.

362
00:27:25,575 --> 00:27:31,257
It is smooth, lightweight and appears to have melted or collapsed in on itself.

363
00:27:31,257 --> 00:27:35,659
It didn't dare think it was anything unusual.

364
00:27:35,659 --> 00:27:39,260
I took it up to the restaurant here and put it in front of two cattle inspectors.

365
00:27:40,060 --> 00:27:43,742
They said that ain't no part of no cow and I was off and running with my research.

366
00:27:45,022 --> 00:27:46,023
Have a look at that.

367
00:27:47,023 --> 00:27:49,024
Wow, that is really weird looking.

368
00:27:50,264 --> 00:27:53,666
What I really want to do is get this artifact back to the lab and test it.

369
00:27:53,666 --> 00:27:56,867
I mean, to me, it's the most intriguing aspect of this case.

370
00:27:56,867 --> 00:27:58,748
First thing I want to know what it's made of.

371
00:27:58,748 --> 00:27:59,748
Is it organic?

372
00:27:59,748 --> 00:28:00,748
Is it inorganic?

373
00:28:00,748 --> 00:28:03,629
Again, we're just looking for something really unusual here.

374
00:28:03,629 --> 00:28:04,950
Or is it all explainable?

375
00:28:05,950 --> 00:28:11,232
With the field work complete, the investigation moves to an experiment that will put both

376
00:28:11,232 --> 00:28:15,234
the government explanation and the eye witnesses to the test.

377
00:28:17,035 --> 00:28:18,035
You got something there.

378
00:28:22,477 --> 00:28:28,919
In 1947, for one day, the U.S. military said that it had recovered a flying saucer.

379
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,600
Days later, they recant.

380
00:28:32,601 --> 00:28:36,602
Then, in the 1990s, they admit something did crash.

381
00:28:38,603 --> 00:28:42,604
But it was a top secret military experiment called Project Mogul.

382
00:28:45,085 --> 00:28:50,448
After visiting two alleged UFO crash sites, the investigation is attempting to test the

383
00:28:50,448 --> 00:28:55,089
government explanation for the Roswell incident, a Project Mogul balloon.

384
00:28:56,090 --> 00:29:02,092
Pat is meeting with Michael Keen, a military tactics expert and lecturer at the University

385
00:29:05,373 --> 00:29:10,375
of Southern California, to discuss this much debated answer for Roswell.

386
00:29:10,375 --> 00:29:15,377
At that time, the United States had a monopoly on atomic weapons.

387
00:29:15,377 --> 00:29:20,379
But what if, unknown to the United States, the Soviets had acquired an atomic bomb?

388
00:29:21,179 --> 00:29:25,181
What we really feared was an atomic Pearl Harbor or a nuclear 9-11.

389
00:29:25,181 --> 00:29:29,183
And so, we undertook a crash program called Project Mogul.

390
00:29:29,183 --> 00:29:32,184
And most people that have looked into Roswell know about Project Mogul.

391
00:29:32,184 --> 00:29:36,185
But maybe you can give me some details as to why that's such a valid explanation.

392
00:29:36,185 --> 00:29:37,586
It wasn't just one balloon.

393
00:29:37,586 --> 00:29:43,188
It was a string of 20 to 30 weather balloons followed by an extensive payload, followed

394
00:29:43,188 --> 00:29:45,389
by maybe half a dozen radar reflectors.

395
00:29:45,389 --> 00:29:47,590
It was an extensive operation.

396
00:29:48,590 --> 00:29:54,592
Originally, Project Mogul used long strings of rubber weather balloons to carry microphones

397
00:29:54,592 --> 00:29:56,893
and radio transmitters.

398
00:29:56,893 --> 00:30:02,095
These tools were sent high into the atmosphere to listen for sound waves from Soviet missile

399
00:30:02,095 --> 00:30:04,596
and bomb tests.

400
00:30:04,596 --> 00:30:08,698
This is probably close to 700 feet long, which is, you know, greater than half the height

401
00:30:08,698 --> 00:30:09,698
of the Eiffel Tower.

402
00:30:09,698 --> 00:30:13,940
But what it really looked like debris, I mean, these guys clearly described very strange

403
00:30:13,940 --> 00:30:16,201
debris that they've never seen before.

404
00:30:16,201 --> 00:30:20,202
Part of the payload dropped off, the balloon could rise again, the winds could drag it,

405
00:30:20,202 --> 00:30:21,203
it could fall again.

406
00:30:21,203 --> 00:30:26,205
It could create multiple type of debris sites or an extensive debris field for that matter.

407
00:30:26,205 --> 00:30:29,206
So this might explain these multiple crash sites?

408
00:30:29,206 --> 00:30:31,207
Absolutely, sure.

409
00:30:32,207 --> 00:30:37,709
If the Mogul balloon is the real explanation for Roswell, then eyewitnesses who handled

410
00:30:37,709 --> 00:30:44,512
the debris should be able to identify the mylar foil used in the radar reflectors.

411
00:30:44,512 --> 00:30:50,514
But many describe a strange memory metal that is both lightweight and able to return to

412
00:30:50,514 --> 00:30:52,515
its original form.

413
00:30:52,515 --> 00:30:55,516
What did these witnesses handle?

414
00:30:59,518 --> 00:31:06,520
At Wonderworks, a special effects house located in Los Angeles, Bill has brought in two eyewitnesses

415
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:07,521
for the test.

416
00:31:07,521 --> 00:31:13,523
Earl Fulford, who claims to have handled the debris at the alleged first crash site.

417
00:31:13,523 --> 00:31:19,525
And Jesse Marcel Jr., who says he handled material when his father, Major Jesse Marcel,

418
00:31:19,525 --> 00:31:23,527
brought some of the debris home from the crash site.

419
00:31:24,527 --> 00:31:29,529
We've collected a number of different materials that seem to match roughly the descriptions

420
00:31:29,529 --> 00:31:30,530
from our two witnesses.

421
00:31:30,530 --> 00:31:35,531
We're going to bring in each witness independently and see if they can positively ID the material

422
00:31:35,531 --> 00:31:38,533
they were handling back in 1947.

423
00:31:38,533 --> 00:31:40,533
I've got a handful of different metals here.

424
00:31:40,533 --> 00:31:43,535
We're starting off with 32,000s, 90s aluminum.

425
00:31:43,535 --> 00:31:47,536
Same with steel, aluminum, also steel, but this isn't 5,000s.

426
00:31:47,536 --> 00:31:50,537
You can see it's quite flexible and flat.

427
00:31:50,537 --> 00:31:57,540
This is actually cardboard at 32,000s and 5,000s acetate with kind of an aluminum finish to it.

428
00:31:57,540 --> 00:32:01,542
And this is mylar, also with aluminum film to it.

429
00:32:01,542 --> 00:32:06,543
Earl, the first subject, is brought in to look at the materials.

430
00:32:06,543 --> 00:32:10,545
Take a turn on each piece and tell me yes or no.

431
00:32:10,545 --> 00:32:13,546
Does it look or feel like the piece of metal from 1947?

432
00:32:14,547 --> 00:32:17,548
No. It's a little too thick.

433
00:32:17,548 --> 00:32:18,548
Let's do the next one.

434
00:32:18,548 --> 00:32:22,550
This one is too heavy.

435
00:32:22,550 --> 00:32:26,551
The color is close, but weight is too much.

436
00:32:26,551 --> 00:32:30,553
This material now was almost weightless.

437
00:32:30,553 --> 00:32:31,553
Let's do the next one.

438
00:32:31,553 --> 00:32:33,554
Two-thiff.

439
00:32:34,554 --> 00:32:42,557
This one is closer, but it doesn't feel like I could fold it up.

440
00:32:44,558 --> 00:32:47,559
This one doesn't resemble it in any way.

441
00:32:52,561 --> 00:32:57,563
This one feels more like the material.

442
00:32:57,563 --> 00:33:04,566
The material we got, we could wad up and it would pop back just about like that's doing now.

443
00:33:04,566 --> 00:33:08,568
You just want to feel like the thickness is about right, the weight.

444
00:33:08,568 --> 00:33:09,568
The thickness and the weight.

445
00:33:09,568 --> 00:33:10,568
And the stiffness.

446
00:33:10,568 --> 00:33:12,569
Makes chills when I lay on my back.

447
00:33:17,571 --> 00:33:18,571
Now let's get this last one.

448
00:33:19,572 --> 00:33:21,573
Definitely not.

449
00:33:22,573 --> 00:33:30,576
You mentioned something that was really intriguing to me, which is this idea that you tried to crumple it up, put it back in your bag.

450
00:33:30,576 --> 00:33:33,577
Can you try actually doing it and see if you can get that same effect?

451
00:33:37,579 --> 00:33:39,580
You got something there.

452
00:33:42,581 --> 00:33:46,582
That's definitely as close as what I've seen.

453
00:33:47,583 --> 00:33:52,585
The acetate seems to be a close match for what Earl experienced.

454
00:33:52,585 --> 00:34:02,588
But according to the official Roswell report released in 1994, this type of acetate was not used in the construction of Project Mobile Balloons.

455
00:34:02,588 --> 00:34:09,591
Only acetate tape was used, which bears no resemblance to the form of acetate being tested.

456
00:34:09,591 --> 00:34:14,593
But if a balloon didn't crash at Roswell, what did?

457
00:34:15,593 --> 00:34:20,595
Another eyewitness may confirm or deny the findings so far.

458
00:34:21,596 --> 00:34:27,598
Well, we have one more witness, one of the most famous of the Roswell witnesses, Jesse Marcel Jr.

459
00:34:27,598 --> 00:34:32,600
The night that my dad brought the material home, I looked at all this material on the floor.

460
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:37,602
The first thing he said was, look at this, because you'll probably never see this again.

461
00:34:37,602 --> 00:34:43,604
Now remember, this is a blind test, so let's not lead on about any of these early findings with Earl.

462
00:34:45,605 --> 00:34:51,607
This is a sheet metal. Now what I saw was not really like a sheet metal, more like foil.

463
00:34:51,607 --> 00:34:53,608
So this is much too thick.

464
00:34:53,608 --> 00:34:54,609
Too thick.

465
00:34:54,609 --> 00:34:58,610
Now these are sheet metal. What I saw on the foil was not sheet metal.

466
00:34:58,610 --> 00:35:01,611
This is getting close to the feeling of the thickness of it.

467
00:35:01,611 --> 00:35:05,613
It was not as shiny as this though, it was a little more dull than this.

468
00:35:05,613 --> 00:35:08,614
But this is closer to the actual thickness.

469
00:35:10,615 --> 00:35:11,615
Let's have a look at this one.

470
00:35:11,615 --> 00:35:15,617
This is very insubstantial, this is like a real thin foil.

471
00:35:15,617 --> 00:35:20,619
The foil that I saw was much thicker than this, but it actually had about the same weight though.

472
00:35:20,619 --> 00:35:23,620
It was thicker but about the same weight as this.

473
00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:26,621
It was almost weightless, like it would float down like that.

474
00:35:28,622 --> 00:35:34,624
But does the acetate also display the memory metal properties that Jesse's father described?

475
00:35:35,624 --> 00:35:37,625
You want to try and crumble it?

476
00:35:41,627 --> 00:35:42,627
Doesn't stay crumble.

477
00:35:42,627 --> 00:35:43,628
Is that what he described?

478
00:35:43,628 --> 00:35:45,628
Yeah, this is basically what he described.

479
00:35:46,629 --> 00:35:56,633
Unbeknownst to either of them, both Earl and Jesse have identified acetate as the material closest to what they handled back in July 1947.

480
00:35:56,633 --> 00:36:01,635
The amazing thing was, is that both of them zeroed right in on the acetate.

481
00:36:01,635 --> 00:36:10,638
It's plain as day to me that they both found the thickness, the malleability, and the overall weight of the acetate to be like a one-to-one match.

482
00:36:11,638 --> 00:36:12,639
This has been really productive.

483
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:18,641
When you think of people back in 1947 handling acetate, that sounds like a pretty revolutionary material back then.

484
00:36:18,641 --> 00:36:24,643
That's the amazing thing for me is that it was the simple solution. We kept looking for something more exotic.

485
00:36:24,643 --> 00:36:30,646
Acetate is a popular component in film stock, adhesive tape, and synthetic fabrics.

486
00:36:30,646 --> 00:36:39,649
As early as 1910, it was used as a glue-like liquid to coat and strengthen fabric aircraft wings and fuselages.

487
00:36:39,649 --> 00:36:46,652
But acetate in a strip or sheet form was not used in any known aircraft in the 1940s.

488
00:36:46,652 --> 00:36:53,655
There's no acetate in a Project Mogul balloon. So what did we prove today? We did prove something.

489
00:36:53,655 --> 00:37:01,658
We proved that two witnesses who didn't know each other, who were there at the time, identified the exact same material.

490
00:37:02,658 --> 00:37:10,661
If the unknown material handled by eyewitnesses was acetate, is it from an entirely different classified project?

491
00:37:12,662 --> 00:37:19,665
This strange artifact could shed more light on what happened at two different sites in New Mexico in 1947.

492
00:37:21,666 --> 00:37:23,666
It must have been an explosion.

493
00:37:24,667 --> 00:37:36,671
Two eyewitnesses who claim to have handled debris in Roswell have identified acetate as the closest match for what they saw in 1947.

494
00:37:36,671 --> 00:37:47,676
But acetate was never used in a Project Mogul balloon. In effect, these witnesses have already eliminated the government's Mogul balloon explanation.

495
00:37:47,676 --> 00:37:54,678
So the question still remains, what crashed in 1947 and what was it made of?

496
00:37:56,679 --> 00:38:04,682
If the second crash in San Augustine is truly linked to Roswell, the final analysis of this artifact may hold the answers.

497
00:38:06,683 --> 00:38:16,687
Ted brings the artifact to SEAL Labs in Los Angeles and Dr. Aaron Kumar, a metallurgy and sample processing expert for a closer examination.

498
00:38:17,687 --> 00:38:20,688
I brought the specimen in. We're looking forward to showing it to you.

499
00:38:20,688 --> 00:38:21,689
Here it is.

500
00:38:21,689 --> 00:38:23,690
Wow, what is it?

501
00:38:23,690 --> 00:38:29,692
This came out of an archaeological dig and a site may have been a crash site. We're not sure.

502
00:38:29,692 --> 00:38:34,694
This is one of the more unusual or difficult to explain artifacts that came up out of the site.

503
00:38:34,694 --> 00:38:35,694
It does look pretty unusual.

504
00:38:35,694 --> 00:38:41,697
And we're just trying to get a sense of what it could be. Is it organic? Is it man-made? Is it natural?

505
00:38:41,697 --> 00:38:47,699
Well, we'll test it and figure this out. I think we should do a variety of tests on this.

506
00:38:48,699 --> 00:38:52,701
These tests will help prove conclusively what the object is made of.

507
00:38:54,702 --> 00:39:00,704
The artifact is smooth to the touch and at just four ounces is extraordinarily lightweight.

508
00:39:00,704 --> 00:39:07,707
But initial looks reveal several cracks and folds that suggest there may be multiple layers to the object.

509
00:39:08,707 --> 00:39:11,708
You see, there's all kinds of folds and sort of crevasses.

510
00:39:14,709 --> 00:39:16,710
Have you ever seen anything like this before?

511
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:20,712
Nothing of this shape and form. Obviously, it looks pretty unusual.

512
00:39:20,712 --> 00:39:26,714
Cracked open areas of the fissures might have some material down inside that we could pull out.

513
00:39:26,714 --> 00:39:27,714
Right.

514
00:39:27,714 --> 00:39:36,718
While Ted and Dr. Kumar take a closer look inside the object, two samples of the artifact are tested to determine what the object is made of.

515
00:39:36,718 --> 00:39:38,719
As well as its melting point.

516
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:47,722
Knowing what temperature is needed to melt the object could give a clue as to the conditions that led to it taking this form.

517
00:39:50,723 --> 00:39:55,725
We have this object here which we need to examine in the electron microscope.

518
00:39:55,725 --> 00:40:02,728
Also, if you know some of these crevasses, it looks to be some bits of material or a powder down there.

519
00:40:06,730 --> 00:40:11,731
Ted and Dr. Kumar locate a few particles to examine from inside the object.

520
00:40:13,732 --> 00:40:19,735
Running these particles through the scanning electron microscope shows a breakdown of its basic elements.

521
00:40:22,736 --> 00:40:30,739
Okay, so what we see here is a large amount of oxygen and carbon which will be component from the organic material.

522
00:40:30,739 --> 00:40:35,741
And it also contains quite a bit of filler material, so to say.

523
00:40:35,741 --> 00:40:40,743
A bit of this material comes from sand and soil and dirt as well.

524
00:40:42,743 --> 00:40:46,745
Nothing anomalous is found from the particle inside the object.

525
00:40:48,746 --> 00:40:52,747
But the results of the artifacts' makeup prove surprising.

526
00:40:53,748 --> 00:40:54,748
Hey, hi.

527
00:40:54,748 --> 00:40:55,749
What are you got?

528
00:40:55,749 --> 00:41:01,751
I got a nice clean spectrum and it's ran through a dead base and it's clearly polyethylene.

529
00:41:03,752 --> 00:41:04,752
Polyethylene.

530
00:41:04,752 --> 00:41:10,754
And even more so, it has a high melting point that is about 130 degrees C, which means it's high density polyethylene.

531
00:41:10,754 --> 00:41:15,756
What would that come from? What would be common containers or Tupperware?

532
00:41:16,757 --> 00:41:24,760
But HDPE, or high density polyethylene, isn't used commercially in products like Tupperware until the early 1960s.

533
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:33,763
And the material itself isn't officially invented until 1953, six years after the alleged crashes at Roswell and San Augustine.

534
00:41:35,764 --> 00:41:46,768
If Art Campbell found the artifact at the site of the second crash, it either found its way to the middle of the desert sometime after 1953,

535
00:41:46,768 --> 00:41:52,771
or it's part of a crash that happened six years before its invention.

536
00:41:53,771 --> 00:42:02,774
Today, HDPE is not only used in commercial products, but also to make fuel tanks and aircraft windows.

537
00:42:02,774 --> 00:42:07,776
How could something with such a high melting point become so deformed?

538
00:42:07,776 --> 00:42:12,778
This was found in the desert in New Mexico, which is hot, but nothing gets that hot.

539
00:42:12,778 --> 00:42:15,780
That's 250 degrees Fahrenheit, something like that?

540
00:42:15,780 --> 00:42:16,780
Even in direct sunlight.

541
00:42:16,780 --> 00:42:20,781
So we know this didn't melt just based on environmental conditions.

542
00:42:20,781 --> 00:42:25,783
It must have been put into a fire or an explosion or something to elevate its heat.

543
00:42:25,783 --> 00:42:26,784
Yes, that's true.

544
00:42:26,784 --> 00:42:32,786
Project Mogul didn't use acetate or any other material like it.

545
00:42:32,786 --> 00:42:39,789
And now the remote site of a second crash contains material that may have been in an explosion.

546
00:42:39,789 --> 00:42:45,791
We know the desert environment in that area never gets over 100 degrees Fahrenheit.

547
00:42:45,791 --> 00:42:50,793
But we also know that HDPE doesn't melt below 130 Celsius.

548
00:42:50,793 --> 00:42:55,795
So I wonder how did this object get melted in the desert there?

549
00:42:55,795 --> 00:43:00,797
It would have to have been something like a fire or an explosion to reach those temperatures.

550
00:43:00,797 --> 00:43:03,798
This provides an entirely new perspective.

551
00:43:03,798 --> 00:43:11,801
For years, the government denies anything happened at Roswell, but then admits to secret tests.

552
00:43:11,801 --> 00:43:17,804
Now, this physical evidence raises serious doubts about those final explanations.

553
00:43:17,804 --> 00:43:24,806
When you put all the pieces together, multiple crash sites, credible witnesses that can finally come out until the truth after all these years,

554
00:43:24,806 --> 00:43:30,809
you have something that's just too big to be a simple cover-up of a military accident.

555
00:43:30,809 --> 00:43:37,811
And the Mogul explanation also cannot account for Earl Fulford's sighting days before the crashes even occur.

556
00:43:37,811 --> 00:43:44,814
Even before the UFOs hit the ground, they were there in the air.

557
00:43:44,814 --> 00:43:58,819
And for me, that explains the relationship among all these various crash sites, that there was more than one craft.

558
00:43:58,819 --> 00:44:05,822
61 years after the incident at Roswell, new evidence continues to emerge.

559
00:44:05,822 --> 00:44:11,824
Is this a different military program still classified today?

560
00:44:11,824 --> 00:44:17,827
Or is the government still not telling us the truth about UFO crashes in New Mexico?